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+--- Thread: Saddle prototype (/showthread.php?tid=5768)
RE: Saddle prototype - Nanno - 12-19-2024
I'm not a fan of adjustable bolts either for the same reasons Stringinit pointed out. If the bolt were able to adjust on a ratchet system that could only be released on purpose with a specific tool, then it would be a lot more dependable. Adjustments would only have to be made once at home and never messed with again unless you need to readjust the saddle for a different goat.
One of the things I don't like about metal bars (sideboards as Moorefieldc calls them) is that they are totally flat. A saddle should have a little bit of curvature to it in my opinion. Otherwise it tends to bridge. This isn't such a problem with very classically built Swiss breeds with straight, narrow backs; but any goat with a bit of width to his body is going to also have some amount of dip to his back. With more people adding Boer and Kiko blood to their packgoats (and in my case Nubian), we're seeing fewer goats with the classic Swiss shape. A good pad that is thicker in the middle and thinner at the edges might alleviate this problem, but I don't know if anyone does that.
RE: Saddle prototype - Charlie Horse - 12-22-2024
You know, a firm foam could be poured onto the honeycombed sideboard that added a little dish to it while also not weighing much. Hummmm.
I have an old Orthoflex horse saddle. What they did is instead of pivoting up high on the 'tree' so to speak, the tree is rigid and it pivots where the tree connects to the side boards. They use ridid but slightly flexible side boards made of some kind of nylon, and the back pivot also slides forward and backwards slightly. It was a great design. Not sure what happened to the company but their saddles would fit any horse without any need for adjustment
RE: Saddle prototype - Moorefieldc - 12-29-2024
(12-18-2024, 02:20 PM)Stringinit Wrote:I get what your saying. I have a couple solutions im working on. One I'm trying to figure out how to mount the tools needed for the hardware securely to the saddle it's self. Two the use of loctite. Three, the use of safety wires like in racing applications or helicopters. Four, two hole that goes through the center bar and bolt and use a cotter pin. My saddle as a whole with Nathan Putnam panniers is already 2 pounds lighter than Marc's saddle and completely aluminum unlike marcs that still uses wooden boards and that was the first design that was heavier than the new one. The side board covers was just the first rendition from my very first design. My newest design has slots for buckles and straps to slide through that will be sewn to the padding. I've also thought about having the padding cut out similar to the design of the boards so they would help let heat escape but I'm also trying to keep the amount of time per saddle to a minimum to keep costs down so they are way less than Marc's. Also I'm a machinist by trade so metal working comes easy to me. Wood working and me hasn't ever mixed and is like calculus to a 4 year old ?(12-04-2024, 12:19 AM)Moorefieldc Wrote: Forgot my tap at the house for the rigging locations but the boards are mounted with an his extra hole for more adjustability.I haven’t been on this website for awhile. I wish I would have noticed your saddle build sooner.
The biggest complaint I had about Marc’s saddles is that there are too many parts that could come loose.
I get it, custom fitted saddles. I have packed with people who have his saddles. They always seem to be torquing down the center bolt. Guess what? A saddle become loose and he lost the wrench to tighten the saddles in our backcountry camp. He could not find it and the repercussions of this was him having to redistribute his gear that the goat could no longer carry onto his other goat’s.
I researched so many designs of saddles over the years. Butthead Packgoats offer custom made wood saddles. They are so much more affordable and the company even sent me a Christmas card thanking me. I believe custom building a saddle is the best option. Extremely easy to properly fit your goats.
I do have a suggestion for your build. If you are dead set on keeping the center bolt. I am not sure need that because of the massive sideboards are more than strong enough to provide rigidity to the saddle, you wanted a lighter saddle than Marc right? Send that exact design to people with the center bolt. Have them fit the saddle to their fully grown goat(important) then have them send it back. Weld the custom angles that the center bolt provided then you remove the center bolt. Solve the needed hardware just to loose it when you need it most. Remove the center pin and ditch the hardware. Create a lighter saddle that cannot come loose.
How much does a center bolt and its sleeve weigh? How much does not having to carry hardware that you are likely to loose weigh? Another 1/4-1/2 pound?
Also take into consideration all of the straps and rigging that needs to be fitted. That’s a lot of material to trap heat and exhaust your goats sooner.
If you want a saddle that is superior to Marc’s I think my suggestions are worth taking in to consideration.
RE: Saddle prototype - Moorefieldc - 12-29-2024
(12-19-2024, 07:51 AM)Nanno Wrote: I'm not a fan of adjustable bolts either for the same reasons Stringinit pointed out. If the bolt were able to adjust on a ratchet system that could only be released on purpose with a specific tool, then it would be a lot more dependable. Adjustments would only have to be made once at home and never messed with again unless you need to readjust the saddle for a different goat.
One of the things I don't like about metal bars (sideboards as Moorefieldc calls them) is that they are totally flat. A saddle should have a little bit of curvature to it in my opinion. Otherwise it tends to bridge. This isn't such a problem with very classically built Swiss breeds with straight, narrow backs; but any goat with a bit of width to his body is going to also have some amount of dip to his back. With more people adding Boer and Kiko blood to their packgoats (and in my case Nubian), we're seeing fewer goats with the classic Swiss shape. A good pad that is thicker in the middle and thinner at the edges might alleviate this problem, but I don't know if anyone does that.
I've thought about bending the front edge up, atleast to help clear the shoulders and help them not rub. but adding a slight curve to the side boards could be easy enough to do.
RE: Saddle prototype - Moorefieldc - 12-31-2024
I upgrades the mounts for the crossbuck. They are quicker and easier to make than using the aluminum angle I first used. they are uniform in shape compared to my eyeball cutting with the band saw.
RE: Saddle prototype - Stringinit - 01-03-2025
What about bonding some heavy felt to the inside of the side boards and riveting it to the side boards in key locations. Then laser cut the felt to your aluminum pattern. Allowing amazing ventilation for the goats.
You could even get fancy and round off the felt near the vent to allow it to glide better across a goats hide.
RE: Saddle prototype - Moorefieldc - 01-14-2025
(01-03-2025, 12:07 PM)Stringinit Wrote: What about bonding some heavy felt to the inside of the side boards and riveting it to the side boards in key locations. Then laser cut the felt to your aluminum pattern. Allowing amazing ventilation for the goats.
You could even get fancy and round off the felt near the vent to allow it to glide better across a goats hide.
I do have a Lazer engraver I could possibly use that. I'm having issues finding felt thats thick enough though.
RE: Saddle prototype - Moorefieldc - 01-17-2025
Got some felt to make the pads. I was going to give it a inch spacing but it looks way to big so I'm going to cut it down to somewhere between 3/8 to 1/2 inch spacing.
RE: Saddle prototype - Stringinit - 01-20-2025
(01-17-2025, 09:33 AM)Moorefieldc Wrote: Got some felt to make the pads. I was going to give it an inch spacing but it looks way to big so I'm going to cut it down to somewhere between 3/8 to 1/2 inch spacing.
What about giving it a leather or cordura trim around the border? Then get some nice brass to secure the felt to the side boards. This would prevent the felt from snagging and getting frayed along the border. You can use the leather to sew in your rigging too. I think it would look very nice as well.
For the yokes of the saddle maybe round off the aluminum if you haven’t already. That sharp ninety degree edge will act like a knife and dig in to down timber as the goats pass under deadfall. Rounding the edges will help the saddle slide off objects better.
Just tossing out some ideas for you. This is very exciting. I always wanted to get into building a better saddle.
RE: Saddle prototype - Moorefieldc - 01-21-2025
(01-20-2025, 10:26 AM)Stringinit Wrote:I put a chamfer on all of the sharp edges(01-17-2025, 09:33 AM)Moorefieldc Wrote: Got some felt to make the pads. I was going to give it an inch spacing but it looks way to big so I'm going to cut it down to somewhere between 3/8 to 1/2 inch spacing.
What about giving it a leather or cordura trim around the border? Then get some nice brass to secure the felt to the side boards. This would prevent the felt from snagging and getting frayed along the border. You can use the leather to sew in your rigging too. I think it would look very nice as well.
For the yokes of the saddle maybe round off the aluminum if you haven’t already. That sharp ninety degree edge will act like a knife and dig in to down timber as the goats pass under deadfall. Rounding the edges will help the saddle slide off objects better.
Just tossing out some ideas for you. This is very exciting. I always wanted to get into building a better saddle.