Goodbye, Sweet Nibsy...

[Nanno]

So I picked up Daisy the guard dog this afternoon, and I hope she lives up to the hype. Right now my goats are afraid of her and she feels the same way about them. But tomorrow I'm putting her in the pen with them and I'll keep an eye out and make sure Cuzco doesn't try to kill her. It will probably take a couple of weeks for her to get used her new home and her new herd, and I know it's going to take at least that long for the goats to accept a dog in their midst. I'm not sure Cuzco ever will, but we're going to try. So far she seems to like the goats even if she's a bit scared of them. She was nervous the whole way home in the truck until I pulled into the driveway and she smelled my goats. Suddenly she was up on the wheel wells and trying to put her head through the cage. She cowered in the corner of the patio until I let her out to smell the yard. She ran from goat pile to goat pile and up and down their well-trodden path with her tail wagging. She stopped cowering after that and even went for a walk with me. We visited Nibble's grave and I told Daisy that her job is to make sure no more goats end up in that dirt pile. I hope she takes her new job seriously!

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Sounds great already. Hope she loves her new goaties and defends them fiercely!

[nebs]

I bet Daisy works out great for you guys! We would love to see a picture of her sometime. Again sorry for your loss with Nibbles.

[Nanno]

Here's Daisy. She's quite obviously half Pyrenees, but I'm not so sure about the Anatolian part. She's too small, for one thing. She's about the size of a Golden Retriever.
   

Daisy spent all day with the goats and I feel comfortable leaving her there tonight. She stopped being scared of the goats this morning when she realized that Cuzco was more afraid of her than she was of him. I don't think she'd ever seen a monster that size. Cuzco's hair has been puffed up all day, and I don't think he laid down once. Nubbin has glued herself to him in the mistaken belief that he's the most likely to protect her from this new menace. Silly goat! She ought to realize that of all the creatures in the pen, Cuzco is the most likely to damage her.

Lilly was aggressive with Daisy this morning, but Daisy would only lie down in a submissive pose when Lilly approached her, and she would slink quietly away if Lilly hit her. So by now Lilly has decided that the dog is an uninteresting object and is already mostly bored of her.
   

I sat on the edge of the stanchion and tried to get Petunia to sniff noses with Daisy this morning. The second that dog touched Petunia, she leaped into my lap and started shaking like a leaf. I held onto her while Daisy gently licked Petunia's nose. I thought it was sweet. Petunia wasn't sure what to think, but I'm pretty sure she didn't care for dog breath.

[Charlie Horse]

Now thats a nice looking dog. I bet you'll sleep a lot deeper at night now that she's around. I just hope she does the trick when the time comes.

[TOU]

Late to the party as usual but I wanted to express my sincerest sympathies to you all Nanno. I am really sorry to hear this and coincidentally it had been on my mind for several weeks. I had been lulled into a false sense of security due to my goats being full size, obviously that is no guarantee. (Neither of mine have horns either.) This has been the third person in the past two weeks that I know of that has lost a full size goat to coyotes. Aaaagh! They are obviously out there and the coldness of this winter seems to be increasing their boldness to take advantage of all opportunities.

So happy for you on your LGD, she looks beautiful. While size is nice, I have my doubts that the size thing is critical in this case. I actually think that it is likely that +99% of the coyote threat can be deterred by LGD even if they never fight.

Anyway your thread had motivated me to move on my concerns for my goat's safety, now and in the future.(I get my 4 new kids in the spring.) I will post more on this in a separate thread.

Hang in there Nanno, I don't think this in anyway is your fault, things happen no matter what we do.

TOU

P.S. Maybe we should add a sub-forum about LGD's to share info etc?

[Nanno]

Thanks, everyone, for your sympathy. It was a hard week, and it might continue to be a bit crazy around here until dog and goats get used to each other. It seems like it's taking forever, but I have to remind myself that I only introduced them to each other on Friday. It seems like ages ago.

Our herd dynamics are definitely changing. Nubbin is still terrified of Daisy and has glued herself to Cuzco. She went into Cuzco's shed last night and surprisingly, Cuzco let her stay. Cuzco is still terrified of Daisy. Every time the dog moves, a bird flies by, the wind blows, or I open the door, that poor goat jumps a mile and all his hair stands up. However, yesterday he started channeling that fear into aggression toward Daisy. He was terrorizing her last night during feeding time and wouldn't let her come near me. I guess after he realized he can't run from the dog, he's going to make the dog run from him. By evening time, Daisy was afraid to be in the goat pen and started to whine and dig at the gate when I left. She gave up after a few scratches at the surface, but if this keeps up I'm going to run hotwire along the ground. She and Cuzco are just going to have to figure out how to co-exist. I'm glad Daisy isn't aggressive with the goats, but with a beast like Cuzco in the pen, she's going to have to stand up for herself.

TOU, I was also lulled into a false sense of security by my electric fence. It's done such a good job for over a year that I got lazy. Sometimes you get away with it, but sometimes you don't. Horns are no guarantee either. Cuzco was attacked by coyotes 18 months ago in our horse pasture (pre-electric fence days), and he's enormous and has a horn that he knows how to use. He did manage to fight them off and outrun them, but we spent two sickening days looking for his carcass and ended up finding him three miles from home. He was very much alive, but also very beat up. Nothing is guaranteed, but we do what we can and hope for the best.

And yes, I can start a LGD subforum. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Nanno]

My first photo of Nibbles, May 20, 2012
   

And my last photo, December 6, 2013
   

Too short, baby. We won't forget you!

[Huckleberry]

Look at her all bundled up in that coat, she sure did know she was loved! We're so thankful for the time we do get with them.

[SMaxwell]

Nanno, Just got here but so sorry about Nibbles. May she RIP and I hope you get some payback on the yotes. I have an electric fence and it's good when it works but at least once every two weeks the deer or elk tear it up and sometimes it takes a few days to get it repaired, especially now that it's dark when I get home. We have an Anatolian and our friends have a half Pyrenees half Anatolian. We have coyotes but they keep their distance since we got the dog. Both our dog and our friends when they were pups were terrorized by bullying goats who wanted to grind them into the dirt. We both had to use a shock collar on certain goats for a while. It's all in the timing when using the shock collar. If you can zap them when they rear up or lower their head to go after the dog it will teach them to think twice. We had to turn the juice all the way up on he shock collars, it seems to take a lot more volts to change a goats mind than a dogs, but in our case and our friends it worked without any psychological damage to the goats and the dogs were spared a lot of abuse. Our friends had one goat that was just relentless on the poor pup until they put the collar on the goat. Both dogs are now mature & the "Alpha's" of the herd, & do a great job of watching over their goats and the goats are not at all afraid of the dogs. Another friend of ours had a couple of Alpines and kept her German Shepherd out with them at night. One night last summer it was raining hard and she didn't want the dog going out & getting all muddy, so she left the dog in. That night a mountain lion killed both of her goats. We are moving this spring to an area that is notorious for bears and lions and I know for a fact that the local lions and bears have a taste for goat meat (from another friend that lives nearby). I wouldn't think of not having the dog. A good dog will prove to be invaluable, hopefully yours will mesh together & you will be able to sleep easier. Keep us informed of how the dynamics are working out.
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