Dodgy CL results-- Advice?

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

We did it years ago on the farm I worked on. The vaccine is a little better now but aside from a reduction in chronic animals growing abscess, we saw no notable effect. Clean animals still come up positive. On many the reaction at the shot site was bad. We have all seen vaccination abscess. Thats common but the reaction from the CL vaccine was much worse and most of the time ended up causing large abscess that had to be lanced.

[Nanno]

Did you use the sheep vaccine or one labeled for goats? I hear that a proper goat vaccine only came on the market in the U.S. in the last few years (2009 or 2010 I think?). I did hear about major problems with reactions to the sheep vaccine.

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

I just remember the name of it was Case Vac I believe. Ill ask Tracy

[Nanno]

Case-Bac is the sheep vaccine, and I know there were a lot of problems with goats reacting badly to it. The goat-specific vaccine is made by Texas Vet Labs and I found out that it only became available in 2012. I'd be interested to find out what experience people have had with it.

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

could make a post on the goat spot and see what peeps say

[Nanno]

Just posted to TGS and we'll see what folks can suggest. It just dawned on me this morning that even if I double-fenced the whole place and never took our goats off this property we'd still have a problem. The road to my house cuts straight through the Clennin Ranch headquarters, and their goat pen is currently draining right into the road. We drive through that mud hole every day and bring all that muck into our land on our tires. I'm just going to have to face the fact that CL is here, it's in my soil, and I'm just going to have to manage it somehow.

[Nanno]

So Taffy, what are your reasons for thinking I should not vaccinate? I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons and make the right decision for this situation. I kind of feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place here.

[Taffy]

First off, I’m not a vet and this is just my opinion. I advise consulting with your veterinarian and speaking with WSU before you make your decision.

I think you need to test Lilly twice more at 30 day intervals. The test results were not conclusive. If you bring a new goat onto your place the protocol is to test the goat 3 times at 30 day intervals to verify test results. I think this is the least you should do.

The vaccine may or may not work. I’ve read as low as 70% effective. Goats can have nasty reactions to the vaccine.

I would not buy a goat that tested positive even if it was because the person said they vaccinated and that is why the goat tested positive.

There is a risk my goats will get infected every time I go to a show – and not just with CL. You run that same risk, too. Think of the risk we run when all of us get together for the Rendy or goat camping trips. All we can do is the best we can at practicing bio-security at home, at shows and when we travel with our goats.

Here’s a link to the Merck site where it discusses CL. This is an excellent article.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/circulat...nitis.html

Only you can decide what you feel is best for your situation. You need to feel comfortable with whatever you choose to do.

[Nanno]

Taffy, did the goats have nasty reactions to the goat vaccine specifically, or just in general? I've been gathering info from as many folks as I can who have used it, and so far I've mostly heard people's experiences with the sheep vaccine. The goat vaccine is so new on the market that people don't generally seem to have much experience with it.

I know that positive CL tests will decrease the chance of selling to certain people, but I've already decided I can't in good conscience advertise any of my goats as "CL-free" and definitely not as being "from a CL-free herd", even if I test frequently. It's not the same risk as people going to shows because for most folks that exposure is minimal and for only a few times a year. You can also bleach your stalls and minimize contact with others. For my goats the exposure is frequent (and possibly constant if it's in my own soil). This is why I'm even considering the vaccination. I'm starting to lean toward it because I feel it would be a lot better for all of them to test positive because they were vaccinated than for even a few of them to test positive because they became infected. Or perhaps I should vaccinate the ones we're keeping and just do frequent tests on the others? We'd be devastated if Finn developed clinical CL. He's our pride and joy.

My neighbor keeps threatening to get rid of his goats (too much work and expense), but so far he's all talk. Besides, last time he got rid of his goats, he changed his mind and bought a new herd six months later. I wonder if vaccinating would be a good idea for now and then if my neighbor eventually does get out of goats for good then I could once again move away from vaccinating after his land has had time to detox.

[Nanno]

Well, I drew blood myself for the first time today. I got the vein the first time, but I still had to poke poor Lilly several times because I was having trouble getting the vacuum tube to get a good seal, so I'd get like 3-4 drops in the vial and then nothing. I ended up drawing it out with a regular syringe and then squirting it in the vacuum tube. Hopefully it still works. Lilly was very patient throughout the whole process.

I plan to talk to WSU about this issue and about my situation. I also talked to a couple of friends who used the sheep vaccine, and this was interesting: one guy said (very emphatically) that the CL vaccine does not make them test positive forever. If you quit vaccinating, their antibody count goes back down and they will test negative again in a year or two.